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Session 63
Our poster today is a former student interested in optometry but is now trying to pursue medicine. A poor MCAT score is holding him back though plus his premed advisor told him he had zero percent chance of getting into medical school due to lack of research experience. Is research really necessary? How else can you improve your application given these circumstances?
The OldPreMeds community has been around for a long time helping nontraditional students like yourself on their journey to and through medical school. If you haven’t yet, sign up for an account today and if you have any questions, ask away.
OldPreMeds Question of the Week:
Today’s post is one from Louis Gonzalez.
“I am 27 years old. I have put off going to medical school for the last five years due to personal and family reasons. I’ve been taking care of my sister who developed a form of psychosis back in the spring of 2013 and I was my grandmother’s caretaker during her fatal bout with liver cancer in 2014.
I was trying for optometry school but after shadowing several optometrists, I just don’t think that it was the correct field for me. I graduated in 2011 with a 3.4 science GPA and a 3.7 accumulative GPA. I, at this time, only have 450 hours of volunteering and three years worth of science tutoring biology, microbiology, chemistry and organic chemistry.
Tutoring at the local community college near my home, I can’t travel that far due to my sister’s health. I did have shadowing experience but the doctor I shadowed back in 2011 doesn’t have an office in this state anymore. I know I’ll have to start shadowing and taking my MCAT. I got 23 on the 2012 MCAT, but what else should I do to prepare my application? I’m taking my MCAT in mid-August. So is it a good idea to get letters of recommendation right now and apply late? Or wait until next year and ask those professors in early 2018 to write letters of recommendation?
Also, is research necessary? I went back to talk to an advisor at my university about applying to medical school in December, but she told me that I had a 0% chance of getting into medical school at this point due to my lack of research. Overall,any advice would be most helpful.”
Here are my insights:
[03:15] Zero Percent Chance and Research Experience
First of all, as much as I love premed advisors, I just have to disagree with “0% chance” of getting into medical school because zero percent chance is never the answer.
Anyway, do you have to have research? No. It’s a tricky thing because when you’re applying to medical schools and you’re looking at the MSAR and the College Information Book, you’d see various breakdowns of students that were accepted including what percentage of them had research. And it’s a large majority. But the bottom line is that you do not have to have research.
If you’re interested in research, great and go seek it out. I highly recommend you go and get research because it’s interesting and just to see if you might like it or not. It’s very easy just like any other experience of shadowing or getting clinical experience.You could either do laboratory research or clinical research wherein you’re helping a physician do some data analysis on their patients. Again, you don’t have to have research but I would recommend you get it or at least “dip your toes” in it for a little bit to see if you like it.
[04:45] Older Prereqs and Preparing for the MCAT
Your GPA scores, volunteering experience, and science tutoring are great. Your prerequisites are a little bit older (take a listen to OPM 62) but it’s probably still okay. I recommend you check in with each of the schools you’re interested in applying to just to make sure they’re okay with having some older prereqs.
Just as I talked about last week, you got a 23 on the MCAT so it may help you on the new MCAT to take some more courses to help solidify your knowledge of the sciences that are going to be tested on the MCAT. But it comes down to you just not understanding what the MCAT is all about. For this reason, I would highly recommend looking into a Blueprint MCAT (formerly Next Step Test Prep) or another one-on-one tutoring company. If you decide to go with Blueprint MCAT (formerly Next Step Test Prep), use the code MSHQ to save some money on their tutoring programs. You really need to understand how to take the MCAT to do well on it.
[06:02] Application Timeline & Letters of Recommendation
If you plan to apply this year (2017) and take the test in August, I would recommend that you don’t apply this year. August is too late to apply this year. It’s not a 0% chance but I would never recommend to anybody that’s applying in 2017 to take the MCAT in August of 2017 because your application is not going to be complete until a month after that. By that time, you’re several months behind and most medical schools are going to have the people they want to interview already lined up and ready to go. They’re just waiting for those last few really top notch applications to come through before the deadline, which is usually at the end of October. So if you have to take the MCAT in August or mid-August, I would delay applying until 2018.
Regarding letters of recommendation, start asking for them around February and have your letter writers submit their letters for 2018, applying in June of 2018.
[07:22] Shadowing and Clinical Experience
Look into some more shadowing and more clinical experience since admissions committees want to see sustained engagement in the medical field. While you had a volunteering a while ago, you didn’t mention what type of volunteering it is so I’m going to assume it’s not medically related. Get some clinical experience being around patients just to make sure this is really what you want to do.
Lastly, I’m glad that you pointed out that you decided not to apply for optometry after shadowing optometrists. This is the very reason medical schools want to see some shadowing experience from students in order to get that same feel and that gut feeling whether to go for it or not.
Links:
OPM 62: What Should I Focus on With Old Prereqs and ECs?
Blueprint MCAT (formerly Next Step Test Prep) (Use the code MSHQ to save some money on their tutoring programs.)
Transcript
Introduction
Dr. Ryan Gray: I’m excited to announce that the Short Coat Podcast has now joined the Med Ed Media network at www.MedEdMedia.com. The Short Coat Podcasts are broadcasts from the amazing and intense world of medical school from the students at the University of Iowa Carver College of Medicine. Go check them out directly at www.TheShortCoat.com.
The Old Premeds Podcast, session number 63.
You’re a nontraditional student entering the medical field on your terms. You may have had some hiccups along the way, but now you’re now ready to change course and go back and serve others as a physician. This podcast is here to help answer your questions and help educate you on your nontraditional journey to becoming a physician.
Welcome to the Old Premeds Podcast. We are part of the Med Ed Media network at www.MedEdMedia.com. I am your host, Dr. Ryan Gray, and we take questions directly from the www.OldPremeds.org forums and answer them here on the podcast. If you’re not familiar with the www.OldPremeds.org forums, I suggest you go familiarize yourself with them. The Old Premeds community has been around for a long time helping nontraditional students like yourself on their journey to and through medical school.
A Question from a Nontraditional Student
Today’s post is one from Louis Gonzalez, he actually put his real name in here which is great, or his name that he wanted us to know. He said, ‘I am 27 years old, I have put off going to medical school for the last five years due to personal and family reasons. I’ve been taking care of my sister who developed a form of psychosis back in the spring of 2013, and I was my grandmother’s caretaker during her fatal bout with liver cancer in 2014. I was trying for optometry school but after shadowing several optometrists, I just don’t think that it was the correct field for me. I graduated in 2011 with a 3.4 science GPA and a 3.7 accumulative GPA. I at this time only have 450 hours of volunteering and three years’ worth of science tutoring biology, microbiology, chemistry and orgo. Tutoring at the local community college near my home, I can’t travel that far due to my sister’s health. I did have shadowing experience but the doctor I shadowed back in 2011 doesn’t have an office in this state anymore. I know I’ll have to start shadowing and taking my MCAT. I got 23 on the 2012 MCAT, but what else should I do to prepare my application? I’m taking my MCAT in mid-August so is it a good idea to get letters of recommendation right now and apply late? Or wait until next year and ask those professors in early 2018 to write letters of recommendation? Also is research necessary? I went back to talk to an advisor at my university about applying to medical school in December, but she told me that I had a 0% chance of getting into medical school at this point due to my lack of research. Overall any advice would be most helpful.’
Is Research Experience Needed to Apply?
Alright. I love these 0% chances. I love advisors, I really do, if you’re an advisor listening to this, I love you and it’s hard work to reach so many students and answer so many questions, but 0% chance is never the answer. So let’s start with that one, research. Do you have to have research? No you do not, and it’s a tricky thing because when you’re applying to medical schools and you’re looking at the MSAR, and the College Information Book, and you see the breakdowns of students that were accepted, and what percentage of them had research, it’s a large, large majority. But you don’t have to have research is the bottom line. If you’re interested in research, great, go seek it out. I highly recommend you go and get research because it’s interesting and you might like it, but you might now, and it’s very easy just like any other experience of shadowing, or getting clinical experience, go and find some research experience. It doesn’t have to be laboratory research, it could be clinical research where you’re helping a physician do some data analysis on patients that he or she has. So you don’t have to have it but I would recommend getting it. Or at least dipping your toes in it for a little bit to see if you like it. I guess that’s a better way of saying it.
Alright so graduated 2011 with a decent science GPA of 3.4, accumulative 3.7, great. 450 hours of volunteering, great. Three years of science tutoring, great. These are a little bit older so if you listen to last week’s podcast, your pre-req’s are a little bit older, but it’s probably still okay. So I would check in with each of the schools that you’re interested in applying to, and just make sure that they’re okay with having some older pre-req’s.
Just as I talked about last week, you got a 23 on the MCAT so it may help you on the MCAT- the new MCAT, to take some more courses to help solidify your knowledge of the sciences that are going to be tested on the MCAT. But really a 23, it comes down to you just not understanding what the MCAT is all about, so I would highly recommend looking into a Blueprint MCAT (formerly Next Step Test Prep) or another one-on-one tutoring company. If you go with Blueprint MCAT (formerly Next Step Test Prep) which is who I recommend, use the code MSHQ to save some money on their tutoring programs. You really need to understand how to take the MCAT to do well on it.
Application Timeline
Let’s talk about August though. If you plan to apply this year and take the test in August, I would recommend not applying this year. August is too late to apply this year. It’s not a 0% chance but I would never recommend to anybody that’s applying in 2017 to take the MCAT in August of 2017 because your application is not going to be complete until a month after that, sometime in September of 2017, and now you’re several months behind and most medical schools are going to have the people that they want to interview already lined up ready to go, and just waiting for those last few really top notch applications to come through before the deadline, usually at the end of October. So if you have to take the MCAT in August, or in mid-August, I would delay applying until 2018, and then yes, get your letters of recommendation. Around February is when I recommend starting asking, and have your letter writers submit their letters for 2018, applying in June of 2018.
So I hope that helped answer your questions. I would look into some more shadowing definitely, Ì would look into getting some more clinical experience definitely. Admissions committees want to see sustained engagement in the medical field, and while you had a lot of volunteering a long time ago, you didn’t really say what type of volunteering that is, so I’m going to assume it’s not medically related volunteering, so I would try to get some clinical experience in being around patients, and making sure that this is really what you want to do.
And I just want to point out one more time, I’m glad that you’re not applying to be an optometrist and that’s exactly why medical schools want to see shadowing. You shadowed one and you said, ‘Yeah this is not what I thought it was, this is not for me.’ So that’s the whole point of shadowing a physician, to get that same feel, and that gut feeling to go, ‘This is exactly what I want to do,’ or maybe not. Anyway I hope that was helpful. If you have a question, got to www.OldPremeds.org, sign up for an account if you don’t already have one, and ask away.
Final Thoughts
If you gained some knowledge out of this podcast today, I would love for you to go share it with somebody. Go take somebody’s phone, show them how to subscribe to a podcast, and let them know that you’re doing them a favor by doing so. Have a great week, stay motivated, stay encouraged, and we’ll see you next week here at the Old Premeds Podcast and Med Ed Media.
