Session 606

Julia is an MD/PhD student and a passionate addiction-focused neuroscientist whose journey from a “networking” 10-year-old to future physician–scientist shows how early curiosity, grit, and reflection can shape a medical career. Get a behind-the-scenes look at what it really takes to pursue the MD/PhD path – from transferring schools and building research credentials to battling the MCAT and finding the resilience to keep going.

For more podcast resources to help you with your medical school journey and beyond, check out Meded Media.

Listen to this podcast episode with the player above, or keep reading for the highlights and takeaway points.

Her Interest in Becoming a Physician

Julia recalls wanting to be in medicine since she was young, heavily influenced by her aunt, a pediatrician, and by how energized she felt simply being in hospitals and doctors’ offices. Unlike many kids who fear medical settings, she felt alive there, which hinted very early that healthcare environments felt like home to her.

As an elementary school student, Julia didn’t just say she wanted to be a doctor – she confidently told people she was going to be a doctor. 

Julia’s love of medicine was supported by her love of school itself, especially science and biology. Thanks to her mom, exams and studying were turned into something positive and even fun – takeout, flashcards, and shared study time – so academic rigor became something she associated with joy rather than stress.

The “Networking” 10-Year-Old

Even as a child and teenager, Julia “networked” by asking her pediatricians and any doctor she met how she could get involved. In high school she shadowed extensively, reaching out to anyone in her or her family’s orbit.

What made the path to medicine stick for her wasn’t just childhood excitement; it was how much she loved the work once she got to college. She found her science courses genuinely exciting, fell in love with neuroscience, enjoyed organic chemistry enough to tutor it as a freshman, and discovered she preferred science even over math, which she had also loved.

Early Immersion in Research

Getting involved in research early allowed Julia to apply what she learned in class with her hands in the lab. This hands-on work turned “checking a box” for med school into a genuine passion. She didn’t just like learning science – she liked doing science and seeing how knowledge could be used in practice.

Discovering a Calling in Addiction Medicine

A pivotal point came when she took a course on addiction and substance use disorders. Learning both the neurobiology and the human side of addiction made her feel so connected to this population that she completely reoriented her academic and extracurricular life around it.

Through research (“bench”) and clinical encounters (“bedside”) with people struggling with addiction, Julia saw a powerful feedback loop: her relationships with patients made her a better scientist, and her scientific understanding made her a better future clinician. That synergy convinced her she couldn’t see herself in any other career.

As a future clinician, Julia values the chance to be a steady source of belief and support for people with substance use disorders, especially because many also face interpersonal and social struggles. She sees recovery as deeply relational, where having even one person who truly understands and believes in you can make a critical difference.

Julia finds meaning in being invited into the “dark and vulnerable” parts of her patients’ lives, honoring the trust it takes for them to share those moments. For her, the therapeutic relationship isn’t just about treatment – it’s about witnessing, validating, and walking alongside people when they’re at their lowest.

Pushing Back Against Premed Pressure for Kids

Despite her strong interest in medicine, Julia didn’t attend special “mini-med school” programs or elite high school opportunities. Instead, she went to public school. She focused on loving her science classes, and created her own exposure by shadowing any doctor she or her family had a connection to.

Julia strongly agrees that middle and high school students don’t need to be in labs or padding resumés just to look good later. She believes young students should be allowed to be kids first, and that there’s plenty of time to build a serious premed profile in college.

When her family moved from Washington to Atlanta during her senior year of high school, Julia decided to return to Washington for college and chose Gonzaga University. Even though it wasn’t a big premed or neuroscience school, she valued being close to family, the small class sizes, and the learning environment more than prestige.

Discovering Neuroscience and the Decision to Transfer

While at Gonzaga, Julia walked 30 minutes to do neuroscience research at WSU Spokane. And a brief neuroscience unit in her intro biology class crystallized what she really wanted: not a general biology degree, but a dedicated neuroscience education. That clarity led her to transfer to the University of Pennsylvania in her second year.

Penn offered what Julia needed at that stage: strong neuroscience training, abundant research opportunities, and a robust pre-health advising office. From day one, advisors helped her plan classes, the MCAT, and extracurriculars, providing structured guidance through the entire premed journey.

Growing in a Pre-Professional, Pre-Health Culture

At Penn, Julia was surrounded by other premeds, which brought both the intensity and the support of a highly pre-professional environment. The culture could be competitive, but her close core group of premed friends turned the process into a collaborative journey—studying together, taking classes together, and going through the application cycle side by side.

“Penn is a very pre professional and pre health culture. So everyone that I was in my classes with, you know, was also pre med… my friends from Penn… we took our classes together, we applied together. We talked about, you know, MCAT, all the things.”

The Power of Mentors and Outside Resources

In addition to formal advising and peer support, Julia leaned heavily on outside resources like this podcast to prepare for her path. She’s careful to note that external advice can become overwhelming.

So having at least one trusted mentor – whether an advisor, a friend in med school, or someone who just applied – makes a big difference in staying grounded.

Checking the “Research Box” – and Discovering a Real Passion

As a freshman, Julia initially saw research as something she “had” to do to get into med school – a checkbox on the premed to-do list. But once she joined a neuroscience lab, she realized she genuinely loved the work, excitedly talking about it with her family over the holidays.

Julia’s enthusiasm was so obvious that the people around her noticed before she did. Her brother questioned whether she might actually want to do research. Her PI directly suggested the MD/PhD path based on how energized she seemed in the lab – even when she herself was resistant to the idea.

Initial Resistance to the MD/PhD Path

When the MD/PhD option was first presented, Julia’s reaction was immediate: absolutely not. The idea of eight years of training sounded overwhelming, and even the fact that tuition would be covered wasn’t enough to convince her at that point.

Despite her hesitation, research kept pulling her back. At Penn, she planned to focus first on settling into the premed culture and worry about research late. But she quickly found another project she cared about, then later transitioned into an addiction-focused lab that aligned with her growing interests.

During her senior year – when many students are trying to decide their next step – Julia recognized that she wasn’t ready to leave the lab or neuroscience behind. Late nights reading papers left her with a clear, almost unavoidable conviction that she needed to keep doing this work. This pushed her to finally embrace the MD/PhD path.

When she finally voiced her decision, her mentors weren’t surprised at all – they’d seen this future for her long before she accepted it herself. Their reactions validated that her growing identity as a physician–scientist had been visible through her actions and passion all along.

Gap Years as a Space to Commit to Research

As Julia planned her gap years, the question of what to do with that time forced her to confront what she truly wanted. Realizing she was “not done with research” made it obvious that those years would be devoted to full-time lab work, deepening her experience and confirming that combining medicine and science was the right long-term path.

Why Multiple Gap Years for an MD/PhD Path?

For students aiming at MD/PhD programs, Julia explains that substantial research experience isn’t just “nice to have” – it’s essential to be competitive. Programs want to see that you can push a project forward, understand it deeply, and take real ownership. This usually means significant time in the lab, beyond what’s possible during a busy undergraduate schedule.

Building a Track Record: Posters, Papers, and Real Responsibility

When Julia mentors undergrads, she focuses on helping them work toward posters and papers, because those are clear, concrete signals of meaningful contribution.

Being on a poster or paper shows that you weren’t just washing dishes in the lab – you understood the project and played a substantial role in it.

Julia already had a first-author paper in progress from undergrad, but she knew it wouldn’t be published soon. She also wanted experience in another lab to broaden her skills and perspectives, and to strengthen her application with a fresh, full-time research environment.

Strong Letters of Recommendation Take Time

Another key reason for spacing out her training with gap years was to earn a truly strong letter of recommendation. Julia wanted at least a full year in her new lab so that a PI could confidently speak to her independence, skills, and growth as a researcher on her MD/PhD application.

Aligning Gap Years With the MCAT Timeline

She also structured her gap years around the MCAT. Her research job started in the fall after graduation, so she spent the summer at home focusing entirely on MCAT prep — a luxury she recognizes not everyone has, but one that gave her the time and mental bandwidth she needed to do well.

Using Full-Time Work to Strengthen the Application

By the time she applied, Julia wanted not just raw research hours but also full-time experience, posters, publications, and a clear narrative of sustained commitment. A year of full-time work before applying made it possible to both build her CV and accurately report her contributions and hours.

Even though she hadn’t originally planned on gap years, Julia now sees them as one of the best decisions she made. Those two years gave her space to grow as a scientist, get clarity on her path, and become genuinely ready – academically and personally – for the MD/PhD journey.

Julia also struggled with the MCAT and kept postponing it during undergrad. The gap years finally gave her full-time, focused study time to prepare properly. She credits it as a big reason she was able to perform well enough to be a strong MD/PhD applicant.

Why She Strongly Validates Gap Years for MD/PhD Students

Looking back, Julia not only defends the idea of gap years — she actively recommends them, especially for future MD/PhD applicants. Given how many research hours and how much depth programs expect, she feels that taking one or more years to work full time in a lab is becoming almost necessary.

The Power of a Good Research Mentor

Julia emphasizes that one of the most important things for a premed interested in research is finding a good mentor – someone who will actively help you move from basic lab tasks to visible, CV-worthy output. As a mentor herself, she works intentionally with her undergrad to map out concrete steps toward posters and papers.

Be Honest About Your Goals: Ask for Posters and Papers

Julia encourages premeds to clearly tell their mentors what they want: to be on posters, to present, to contribute to papers. Many schools host small, local symposiums that are easier entry points than big national conferences, but still count as real poster experience and help you build presentation skills.

Learning by Doing (and Failing) With Support

Julia admits her first poster was “a complete disaster,” but stresses that this is normal – and fixable – with good mentorship. Now, she pays it forward by sharing tools, templates, and figure-making strategies with her undergrads, turning poster preparation into a fun, educational process rather than something intimidating.

Time and Presence in the Lab Matter

To “deserve” authorship or poster opportunities, Julia stresses that students need to put in real time and consistent effort in the lab. That might mean spending as many hours as you can during the semester or dedicating an entire summer, with the explicit plan of presenting a poster by the end.

Julia reassures students that their main mentor doesn’t need to be the principal investigator. Grad students and postdocs are often eager to help, teach, and guide undergrads through their first real research outputs – and may even be more accessible on a day-to-day basis.

Struggling With the MCAT – and the Whole Path

Julia is clear that her journey wasn’t smooth; she struggled not just with the MCAT, but with the whole premed path. What kept her moving forward was a kind of stubborn optimism and refusal to give up. Though she now sees it as something students need to hear – especially those who feel like the MCAT might end their dreams.

The Mistake of Treating the MCAT Like “Just Another Class”

In college, Julia tried to squeeze MCAT prep alongside a double major and ~18 credits, treating it as something she could add on.

She eventually realized the MCAT demands far more focus – it’s not another course, it’s essentially all of undergrad science combined, and it must be given that level of respect.

Only after taking her board exams in med school did Julia fully appreciate why the MCAT is structured the way it is. It’s less about perfection and more about proving you can cope with a huge volume of material – exactly the kind of challenge you face again with Step exams and other boards.

Tutors had helped her before for tests like the SAT, but that approach alone wasn’t enough for the MCAT.

A key turning point came when one tutor bluntly told her she needed to treat the exam as a major priority, not a side project. This prompted her to reassess how she studied and what kind of structure she needed.

Julia realized she learns best with strong structure, so she enrolled in a Princeton Review course that essentially made the MCAT her full-time job for 2.5–3 months. She combined lectures, videos, and homework with a tutor, massive Quizlet decks, and heavily annotated books to truly master the content through repetition.

The Breaking Point Run: “Can I Imagine a Life Without Medicine?”

Six weeks in, with no score improvement, Julia hit an emotional low. On a run, she asked herself if she could envision a life without being a physician – maybe doing a clinical psych PhD or a neuroscience PhD instead – and realized that walking away would be a lifelong regret, which reignited her determination.

After that moment, she treated the MCAT like an athlete preparing for a big competition. She and her tutor reassessed what was and wasn’t working, and she became ruthlessly intentional about her time – no social media, phone in another room, and each day focused on doing work that would actually translate into points.

The Jump in Scores and Performing on Test Day

Within a week or two of this mindset shift, her practice score jumped by about 10 points.

On test day, she performed even better than expected – scoring seven points higher than her best practice test – something she attributes to her “athlete mode” kicking in during real high-stakes environments.

Halfway through the actual MCAT, she noticed the tense, competitive atmosphere during the lunch break and realized how absurd it was to give the test so much power.

That shift – remembering it was “just” a multiple-choice exam and not life or death – helped her relax and simply perform.

Coming out of the exam, Julia initially cried to her mom, convinced parts of it had gone badly. But when the dust settled, her mom pointed out she had never seen her work that hard. For Julia, the experience became a defining lesson in resilience, self-belief, and honest self-assessment – skills that now shape how she approaches medical school and board exams.

Learning to Ask for Help and Advocate for Yourself

One of the most important takeaways for Julia was learning to speak up when she doesn’t understand something.

That habit – asking for help, asking for explanations tailored to how she learns – has carried into medical training, where not knowing and not asking can have real consequences for patient care.

Realizing the MCAT Truly Mattered

Julia’s turning point was accepting that the MCAT wasn’t just another hurdle – it was important enough that she knew she’d regret it for the rest of her life if she didn’t figure out how to conquer it. Once she recognized that, the exam became something worth fighting for, not just something to get through.

Even when others minimized the test or doubted her potential, Julia decided the one person she had to believe in was herself. A tutoring company once told her she’d never get into med school based on her starting scores – something she now vows never to say to her own students, because no one else gets to define their limits.

Applying Broadly While Staying True to MD/PhD Goals

When it came time to apply, Julia followed her pre-health office’s advice to cast a wide net – around 20 MD/PhD programs plus a few MD-only schools as backups. Even so, she was clear with herself that medicine was non-negotiable and that she truly wanted the combined MD/PhD path, knowing she could still pursue research even with an MD alone if needed.

Julia applied in the 2020 cycle – a chaotic and highly competitive year as many people suddenly had time to work on applications and take the MCAT. Even in that environment, she earned two MD/PhD interviews (and acceptances at both) plus one MD interview, where she was waitlisted because the school felt she belonged in a more research-heavy program.

Why She Chose Her MD/PhD Program

For Julia, choosing between MD/PhD offers came down to two big factors: location and mentorship. She had already built a life and community in New York City during her gap years and didn’t feel “done” with the city. She wanted to stay close to friends and a support network outside of medicine, which she sees as crucial for long-term wellbeing.

The second factor was depth and breadth of research mentorship. She believed she could get a solid medical education almost anywhere in the U.S., so the differentiator was how many potential PhD mentors genuinely excited her. At the school she declined, there were only one or two; at her chosen program, there were many. To the point that picking rotation mentors was hard because she connected with so many faculty.

Having prior connections from her New York gap years also made the transition smoother. Her past PI knew her current PI, creating a sense of continuity and a “warm handoff” into her new lab.

Final Advice for Students Doubting Their Path

Julia’s core message to students wrestling with doubt—especially after something like a painful MCAT experience or a “run moment” – is to pause and reflect deeply, not react impulsively. She leans into her future-psychiatrist mindset: journal, write letters to your future self, and really envision what your life would look like on each possible path.

Finally, she encourages students to anchor themselves in the patient experiences that moved them – the ones that might one day become personal statement stories. In moments of exam stress, she mentally puts a real patient in front of her and reminds herself that studying is ultimately for them, not for a score.

Julia also stresses that medicine fundamentally changes how you see life, suffering, and meaning. If, after honest reflection, the path still feels right, she encourages you to keep going – but if it doesn’t, it’s equally valid and wise to step away. The training is long and hard, and you shouldn’t force yourself through it if it doesn’t align with who you are.

Links:

Meded Media

Blueprint MCAT